In Regards to the Alliance Lottery

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In Regards to the Alliance Lottery

Post  Tara Bastet on Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:58 am

Complaints and accusations make what should be a fun event for anyone who wishes to participate, a very difficult experience for me. Various suggestions have been made to provide more accountability then I currently provide. In my opinion, this would do no good. The people who complain are the same people who don't use the forums. No amount of provided information will help if people don't access that information.

There were accusations that the lotto is rigged because only ema, emd and DR members win, and the winners from those three guilds is often the guild leader. This is totally false and is proveable simply by reading the winners information posted after each lotto ends. Yes, there are more winners from those three guilds due to the amount of people who enter from them. Example: Take a large bowl and put in 30 red, 30 green and 30 blue beans. Add 5 pink, 5 yellow and 5 orange beans. Mix it up, reach in without looking and pick out 3 beans. The chances are quite high you will choose red, green or blue beans more frequently.

Accusations that I keep some of the money are really impossible to prove or disprove no matter what kind of accountability is used. Every time someone enters the lotto, I update my guild announcment total and announce the new total on alliance chat. If I sell three sets of numbers back to back, the alliance chat announcement will show an increase of 7.5K (2.5K per person). When people donate money to the lotto, they have a choice of where that money goes. It can be up front to increase the prize or held in reserve to cover the cost of the 5th numbers. Either way, if they donate 5K or more, I also announce that on alliance chat with an explanation of where their money has gone. Examples: I received two donations yesterday. The 1st announcement was: Serathia [emd] has donated 23K to the kitty. Thanks to him we have plenty of funds to cover the 5th number for this lotto. Last eve's announcement was: Thanks to Tidus [DR] for his 20K donation, the total lotto prize is now 138.5K. If either of these were inaccuate information, wouldn't the donator speak up? Once the lotto was over and if the entire spreadsheet was published, would these people remember they'd donated or how much they donated? And would the people who donate even care? They aren't the one's slaundering. Again, the people causing trouble are the ones who don't bother checking the forum so their info is in error.

It was suggested I post a daily update on the forum providing all info, along with the numbers chosen. This will not happen. First of all, it's no one else's business who chose what numbers. That information belongs only to the person who entered. Some people wouldn't care but others would. This would also scew the game of chance. Example: On day 10 people could check which numbers had been used and how often, and select their numbers based on that. 2nd, I put a tremendous amount of time into this event already and am unwilling to spend additional time every day posting to appease the few people who can find nothing better to do then falsly accuse.

Some people are taking a simple, fun event and twisting it into something ugly and hateful. Anyone who doesn't trust me is simply asked to not participate and be quiet. Mud slinging helps no one and has caused me to seriously consider ending this event.

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Re: In Regards to the Alliance Lottery

Post  Markus Clouser on Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:38 am

I talked with Aiian & Ayla from DR last night and both seemed to agree with the following.

Before the /roll announce ALL participants and their numbers in trade chat. For example.
Axe Axeydental: 5|25|75|66|88
Torch Blowtorch: 6|19|24|44|100
And so on.

This eliminates the possibility of picking unpicked numbers because the lotto is already closed and it's about to /roll anyway.
After the /roll a couple of screeshots posted on the forums with all the names, numbers and /roll emote visible and that's it. There's 100% transparency and if there's a troll bitching about it I can (and will unmercifully) swing my kickhammer towards his direction with 100% cover. There will be not a single thing someone could say about it.

Let me know if this isn't flawless.

As for time, same, with Aiian & Ayla, at several times per day, for 10mins the ticket booth is open. That will ensure everyone in any timezone will be able to join. If Axe Axeydental hasn't purchased its tickets in time, sucks to be him, he'll buy them tomorrow. That will be ~30mins/40mins depending on how much you're willing to spend with this. Yes, there might be less people joining and the overall prize might be lower but I believe it's worth it.

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Re: In Regards to the Alliance Lottery

Post  Tara Bastet on Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:07 pm

I have no interest in typing 142 entrants names (yes, there were that many last time) and all their numbers prior to doing the /roll. One typo and someone would be angry. Having more then one person accepting funds and numbers then trying to consolidate the information and ensure accuracy complicates it all the more. Screenshots after and typing a person's name and numbers before both take away that person's right to keep their numbers private.

This system covers an area no one has complained about (the accuracy in recording their numbers) and does nothing to provide accountablility for any funds donated beyond what I currently do so would still have that gray area.

If this system is to be employed, someone else will have to host the lotto. I'll conclude the current one in the manner I've hosted them for over 50 lotto's, at the scheduled day and time, and call it done.

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Re: In Regards to the Alliance Lottery

Post  Brighid The Vulcan on Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:58 pm

if you dont trust Tara: dont join....
if you dont want to loose you hard-earned 2k: dont join...

if you think you have won, but accidentally mentioned other numbers to Tara: make a print screen to make you remember.. there is a button for that on your keyboard Smile

.....or just choose the same (losing) numbers for every lottery like i always do!

But dont put Tara up with even more time spending on this lottery..... In a real lottery the owners make money of it... Tara doesnt....

Be happy that someone organizes and puts this amount of time in a returning event like this.





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Re: In Regards to the Alliance Lottery

Post  Miri Ka on Fri Nov 05, 2010 3:38 pm

I joined DR and won on the 1st lotto (shared prize) after my join date. No one knew me from anyone, to decide to give me any kind of underhanded win.
Tara on faction challenge has put in 1 quarter million in game gold coin of her own: and once everything was paid out as promised, she decided it would be nice to have prizes for the next 10 places and financed that as well.
This is only examples..this is just what Tara does. She has 10 characters very far into game and is usually on just to chat with us as friends or events or encouraging faction runs, or for this player to help that player out etc.., as she has just about done all the progressions and title stuff.
If a lotto or any event has a way that it can be exploited, that does not mean it IS being exploited.
The tough part for me was someone calling it scam who had not even visited forum for rules, admittedly.
I am thankful for the majority who though not as vocal (why should they be, they are happy and have trust well placed), who can see the spirit of the events and the totally voluntary extra work the event sponsors have.
Why do they do it? I hope this is not so difficult to believe, but it is so we can have a good time and greater community in game! If your past experiences were not good, take a chance to see if over time, this is not a welcome change and restores your faith in some good people and players. Lotto wise, you won't lose more than 2k to find out! Smile
Thank you Marcus and Tara and so many for who you are, and the events and keeping this a nice place to visit while we are together playing this very fun game. Thank you for making it even more fun.

p/s only time I've posted on a GW forum, forgive my indulgence but I want to be counted with those that support some good people from all over our wonderful planet Smile

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Re: In Regards to the Alliance Lottery

Post  Kain From Corhagen on Fri Nov 05, 2010 5:16 pm

I know Tara since i was still prety much a noob and i know that if you can trust someone in guildwars she's prety much the first on your list if you know her! She is a honnest person who does not need people insulting her because they lost at a lottery or because some people who don't even enter need a passtime!
Anyone who accuses the lotto to be rigged should be givin a first warning and if they continue ranting kicked out for causing strife and unrespectfull attitude!

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Re: In Regards to the Alliance Lottery

Post  Prince Zorkian on Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:12 pm

I have been part of DR for almost 2 1/2 years. At two lotto's a month, that means I've been active in close to 50 lotto's. I admit that when I first joined in, I did not know Tara at all and was concerned that many of these charges that some people are claiming now might be true. But I have learned over that time that Tara genuinely loves being a guild leader and hosting many various events for the guild. Like I said, I have been active in somewhere around 40-50 lottery drawings, having won maybe 1 and a small one at that, but I have also been involved in scavenger hunts, faction challenges, seek & Finds and other events, some of which I even helped coordinate as an officer of the guild (such as a birthday bash). All these things if they do not cost us a little bit of money, definitely cost us some time, but I can assure you that they all pay back many times over.

My point is, even if Tara did some some money from the lotto, I say let her she had dedicated 30 hours a week to an event that she gets NO benefit from, but I can assure you that the only money she has EVER taken was the two times that she legitimately won the lotto in over 2 years (48 lotto drawings).

Markus suggested Tara post everyone's numbers in the AC before rolling, that does nothing. Let's treat this in game for fun lotto the same way we treat a in life real lotto, no one knows what anyone has, no one is accusing the machines of cheating in real life. Anyone is welcome to witness. The only change that I Might suggest to prevent accusations is to allow someone besides Tara do the actual dice roll, but I do not see how that would affect things.

I know this may sound crazy, but lets bring on the people who are really complaining and have them air out thier complaints. But make sure you read the rules and make sure u have considered people like me who have been part of DR for a very long time and have learned to trust Tara. And believe me, if I honestly felt that she was scamming us, I would be the first one to report her and then leave the guild, AND make sure NO ONE ever joined DR. This is a feat I have not done in close to 3 yrs, why would I think things have changed now.

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Re: In Regards to the Alliance Lottery

Post  Weza on Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:55 am

As the average member in the ema alliance, I think that there is nothing that needs to be changed in anything, the only thing that we could do is actually give Tara more acknowledgement for what she does, she spends a lot of hours trying to make the alliance fun and interesting with various events and for that I take my Ranger mask off for you. Why should we let 1 or 2 complaints ruin the alliances events and its not everyday that you will find an event or a guild member devout so much time for our playing pleasure.

Keep at it Tara Very Happy

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Re: In Regards to the Alliance Lottery

Post  Tess Harding on Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:13 am

Some thoughts...

1. I don't get how people can call this event unfair. The roll is done with a guildwars /roll emote, and everyone knows his own number. To avoid wild accusations such as this, Tara announces her own numbers before the roll. She couldn't cheat even if she wanted to.

2. The accusation that Tara is holding money back is equally ludicrous. The lottery is kept alive by donations much more than the actual ticket prices. The people who donate the money obviously trust Tara with that money or they wouldn't have given it. And do you really think she'd spend all this time and effort to skim a few plats off the winnings?!

3. These accusations are publicly directed at someone who's spending hours and hours to organize this event, only to have wild baseless accusations thrown in her face. Let's be honest; none of the people who complained ever did any math on the subject, or knew how everything worked, and they still have the nerve to accuse Tara of cheating.

4. In all my previous guilds/alliances, I have never seen an alliance-wide event such as this one been organized so good and systematically. I would hate for some people to ruin all that.

So in short, don't let those awful 2% of the alliance make you feel bad Tara. The lottery is perfect as it is.

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Re: In Regards to the Alliance Lottery

Post  Markus Clouser on Sat Nov 06, 2010 12:15 pm

They're trolls = A troll in Internetspeak refers to an entity which involves itself in discussions purely for the purpose of disturbing other users and making itself feel important.

There are two ways you counter trolls:

1. Ignore - /igˈnôr/

Because the troll feeds on having its name mentioned or by generating debate or ill feeling, many internet users either ignore the troll completely or respond with the phrase, “Don’t Feed the Troll".


2. Flamethrower




I would kindly suggest the first since Google gave me ~2,360,000 results for "don't feed the troll".

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Re: In Regards to the Alliance Lottery

Post  Zazazel on Sun Nov 07, 2010 4:48 am

Suggestion 2 would be horrible indeed, that's just feeding them. I would stick with Marcus' number 1, and you will be fine. I also agree with the above mentioned; If you don't trust it, simply don't join, you arent forced to are you?

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Re: In Regards to the Alliance Lottery

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